airframe hours?

[gregp74]

Ok, I am currently in the market to purchase a plane. I have noticed that there are some nice planes out there but have several thousand hours. anywhere from 5,000 to 8,500 hours. but have low engine hours due to rebuilds. so my question is, should I stay away from high airframe hours? or does it realy matter that much?

[Mike Simmons]

As others will tell you, it is not so much the hours accumulated but HOW they were accumulated - and I would tend to agree. Although the airframe time is important, equally important is the condition of the airframe itself and how this factors into the overall value of the aircraft. Most evaluations skip that part of the analysis. In other words, corrosion, dents, dings and deformations, improper repairs from a previous damage event, etc. need to be factored into the overall analysis.

Good luck on your search.

Mike Simmons
President
Plane Data, Inc.
800-895-1382
Plane Data, Inc. Aircraft Consulting and Appraising
More information about the Qualified Buyer's Agent Service - NAAA Qualified Buyers Agent

[gregp74]

As others will tell you, it is not so much the hours accumulated but HOW they were accumulated - and I would tend to agree. Although the airframe time is important, equally important is the condition of the airframe itself and how this factors into the overall value of the aircraft. Most evaluations skip that part of the analysis. In other words, corrosion, dents, dings and deformations, improper repairs from a previous damage event, etc. need to be factored into the overall analysis.

Good luck on your search.

Mike Simmons
President
Plane Data, Inc.
800-895-1382
Plane Data, Inc. Aircraft Consulting and Appraising
More information about the Qualified Buyer's Agent Service - NAAA Qualified Buyers Agent

Thanks for your info Mike. so I guess a plane that has no damage history or major defects and has not been used as a trainer, then thr airframe hours wouldnt be so bad.

[Mike Simmons]

My point is that from a practical standpoint it would not be a "bad" aircraft. Even with damage history, more information would be needed. For example, a typical "gear up" situation which normally involves belly skin is not a big deal in the overall capability of the aircraft. Extensive major damage history is another topic. Trainer aircraft tend to be abused due to the higher than average number of landings (some better than others) and a review of the airframe log would tell more.

However, high airframe time tends to factor into the overall value of the aircraft because airframes with less time tend to command higher prices so don't be afraid to buy one but do the necessary research and make sure you are not over paying for it - as you should for any aircraft purchase.

Good luck

Mike Simmons
President
Plane Data, Inc.
800-895-1382
Plane Data, Inc. Aircraft Consulting and Appraising

[gregp74]

My point is that from a practical standpoint it would not be a "bad" aircraft. Even with damage history, more information would be needed. For example, a typical "gear up" situation which normally involves belly skin is not a big deal in the overall capability of the aircraft. Extensive major damage history is another topic. Trainer aircraft tend to be abused due to the higher than average number of landings (some better than others) and a review of the airframe log would tell more.

However, high airframe time tends to factor into the overall value of the aircraft because airframes with less time tend to command higher prices so don't be afraid to buy one but do the necessary research and make sure you are not over paying for it - as you should for any aircraft purchase.

Good luck

Mike Simmons
President
Plane Data, Inc.
800-895-1382
Plane Data, Inc. Aircraft Consulting and Appraising

Another quest I guess would be, what about actual age. would you say that a plane built in 1968 would be better built or have better material than the same one built in 1980's as car manufactors have done in the past years. trying to save money by cutting back on quality of materials?

[Mike Simmons]

Another quest I guess would be, what about actual age. would you say that a plane built in 1968 would be better built or have better material than the same one built in 1980's as car manufactors have done in the past years. trying to save money by cutting back on quality of materials?

I take it this is the question we discussed over the phone a few days ago? If so, you are correct. It seems to take forever for your post to come through! If you have other questions, I am always a toll free call away!

Good luck.

Mike Simmons
President
Plane Data, Inc.
800-895-1382
Plane Data, Inc. Aircraft Consulting and Appraising

[Denny of Oakland]

Not to plug my book, but I did write a book on this subject and it covers this as well as many others area's that are over looked in the pruchase process. First, this I would recommend is decide on the make and model aircraft you want to purchase. Second, download the Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) from the FAA web site free and read life limited section for the make, model, and serial number you are considering. This is very important some aircraft have life limited fuselages and wings such as some Piper aircraft as well as others.

Mike is right about the hours it depends how they were put on the airframe, type of flying, landing fields. To help answer this question when you decide what N-number to purchase go to the FAA web site and order the records for the aircraft that will come on a CD. The registration file is important to know where the aircraft has been and who owned it. The aircraft records on the CD should match the paper copy the owner has, most don't which could be a good or bad thing. I explain this in my book as well.

I have some other information about this subject on my site as well it all free to download. So go to any search engine and type in StacheAir the site will come up.

What every you decide to do please do not purchase any aircraft without ordering the records from Oklahoma City first and get a pre-purchase inspection added you the contract you should sign when purchasing CYA.

I can provide some information about an aircraft it you find one you want, just contact me back.

[OrangeOkie]

As a potential buyer, I would shy away from any aircraft with over 4000 hours on the airframe. There are so many to choose from with much lower hours, why would I buy one with more hours. When it comes to re-sale, less is more. I am not saying that high time aircraft are unsafe. Its all about re-sale.

[Mike Simmons]

As a potential buyer, I would shy away from any aircraft with over 4000 hours on the airframe. There are so many to choose from with much lower hours, why would I buy one with more hours. When it comes to re-sale, less is more. I am not saying that high time aircraft are unsafe. Its all about re-sale.

Everything is relative meaning that 4000 hours on one year, make and model may be high, on another year, make and model it would be average or low. As an example, let's take the buyer who wants to purchase a $50K 172. When I look at the budget of the buyer and reference this against the range of selling prices, the $50K number tends to appear in earlier year models which will have more AFTT and probably some level of damage. If your budget is much higher, then you can afford newer year models, better equipment and lower AFTT.

This is all part of my "rational" approach to purchasing aircraft - ANY aircraft.

Good luck.

Mike Simmons
NAAA Sr. Certified Aircraft Appraiser (NSCA)
800-895-1382
Plane Data, Inc. Aircraft Consulting and Appraising