Time logging, Part 135

[Steve428]

I have a friend who is considering working on her multi-commercial. She is going to be working with an MEI at the FBO I work at. The MEI also flys Part 135 cargo, part-time, and was talking about having my friend go along on a few freight runs to supplement her training, and help her save money on expensive multi-airplane rental. Would this be legally loggable time for my friend, per the FARs? I know that the Part 135 operator's insurance company would surely not be okay with it, and it is probably against company policy; but, is it legally loggable time, per FAR requirements? Thanks in advance for any information provided.

[Denny of Oakland]

This is really a legal question you are asking and you should look in FAR part 1 and asked yourself if your are?

Crewmember means a person assigned to perform duty in an aircraft during flight time.

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

If you meet the requirements then ask the part 135 operator who will be PIC both of you can't be.

I would suggest you be very careful in this situation about logging time as it is a legal thing.

Denny of Oakland

[Steve428]

Thank you so much for your answer. I will pass this info along to her. I don't think she would be logging it as PIC time, rather, as Dual Recieved training time. Anyone else have an idea on this? Does it fall into a gray area?

[Steve428]

I found the answer to my own question. It is along the lines of what Denny was saying. Here it is:
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Section 135.115: Manipulation of controls.
No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the flight controls of an aircraft during flight conducted under this part, nor may any person manipulate the controls during such flight unless that person is—

(a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and qualified in the aircraft; or

(b) An authorized safety representative of the Administrator who has the permission of the pilot in command, is qualified in the aircraft, and is checking flight operations.
-----------------------------
The question I still have is this:
---Question---
What if the student didn't take the controls, but still received multi-engine flight instruction; would this be legal and loggable time (Dual Recieved)? I think the answer is that only the required crew, PIC, and employees of the Part 135 operator are allowed to be onboard the aircraft, if the aircraft doesn't comply with passenger carrying requirments, which includes having placards about emergency exits, and also would require the PIC to give a briefing on smoking, emergency evacuation, etc....So, if my friend were to become an employee of the company, even if it meant she cleaned the aircraft, then she could legally be aboard the aircraft during flight, and also legally log Dual Instruction Received time if and only if she received instruction in the aircraft and she did not touch the controls.

[Av8trxx]

On dead legs part 135 ops can go under part 91 and only then could she can log dual received if the PC had the approproate CFI certs. How often they get no revenue legs is another story. As long as there is revenue onboard she cannot log anything.

There are a few low-life operators who prey on pilots looking to build up time and scam them into buying F/O time as SIC flying under part 135 ops. (Basically Pay For Training or buying your job.) This can be very sticky as quite often the a/c does not require a SIC, therefore unless one is required per the airlines operations specs, you cannot log SIC time.

Check out http://forums.flightinfo.com as there are topics about those subjects.