landing without flaps

[wilsonx4]

What is the standard way to land an airplane without flaps and is this dangerous?

[leardvr]

To answer your first question: "What is the standard way to land an airplane without flaps" Most aircraft flight manuals address this very issue. It ranges from changes in approach speeds to flaring techniches.

The second question "and is this dangerous?" does a good job answering the first also:
Flaps allow for an increased decent rate with out an increase in airspeed (right!!) this because large amounts of flaps (say 35 in a C-172) create more drag then lift. Therefore shorter landing distences because of lower speeds. In alot of twins and all jets that I've flown there are check list for Flap inop landings or Non standard flap landings or something along those lines. They all share the same thing though, higher airspeeds and therefore longer landing distences. With enough runway this isn't per say dangerous (10000 runway and a C-172). As an instructor with Flight Safety and having 2000+ hours instructing outside of the sim I can say that what is most dangerous about landing with out flaps is the fact that it leads to a much different looking flare, typicly you'll see a MUCH higher deck angle in a no flap landing then in a full flap landing. It's my opinion that this is what makes it so dangerous: it is outside the "normal" operating window that we spend 99% of our time in. Anything outside that windonw can be dangerous; whether it's a no flap landing or your first ILS to 200-1/2, or VFR in IFR.
No Flap landings are requierd for training for a type rating and that's why

God Bless


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[summitgolfer]

Flaps allow the nose of the airplane to be lowered without gaining excessive speed when descending. This does not mean you can't descend without flaps, or that the speed will be higher without flaps. The only difference is without flaps the nose is higher to maintain the same speed (remember flaps allow you to lower the nose.) To land the airplane, use the book speeds for downwind, base, and final. The plane will fly and land fine. Your view will be different, and may be uncomfortable at first, but it is not dangerous. Remember, lots of planes don't have flaps. Even if you fly one that does, you should know how to land without flaps in case something happens that disables them, like electrical problems on electric flaps. Besides, you know forward slips, right? Cessna placards prohibit slips with flaps. They don't prohibit slips. They intend for you to be able to descend and land without flaps, at least sometimes.

In some aircraft, a no-flap landing is an "emergency-only" procedure. That is, under normal circumstances you don't want to land in a no-flaps situation just for practice. See the POH or AFM for the aircraft.

[Chapster]

Landing an aircraft without flaps is exactly what the Wright Brothers did, what early Aviator Pioneers did, and what some do still today, i.e. use an appropriate approach speed considering weather conditions. I routinely utilize no-flap landings in light wind conditions as I have no need to increase the angle of attack of the wing nor add excess parasitic and induced drag to the wing when not at or near gross weight.

I may reconsider this in gusting winds or shear near gross weight but definitely is it not necessary to utilize flaps on a light trainer or twin during every landing. Proper approach speed and compensation for winds is all that is needed and is all the early Aviators did to ensure a safe and pleasant landing.

Now if yer in a L-1011 the picture is a bit different and landing at 230 knots is not considered safe in the aviation industry and thus the use of flaps and other high lift devices is crucial.

If you fly the wing at indicated until stall just above the ground yer fine.

[bobmrg]

Golly...once upon a time airplanes didn't have flaps, so landing without them is certainly not dangerous. Flaps allow you to touch down as slowly as safety permits, so there is less kinetic energy to be dissipated by the brakes. Normal landings use full flaps...but what is a normal landing? Crosswinds and gusty winds make us use other-than-normal procedures, which means reducing flap deflection as the situation demands, keeping in mind the goal of landing as slowly as possible. When you have more experience under your belt (and a pilot certificate in your pocket) you will take on gusty crosswinds with some flap extension, and get rid of the flaps immediately upon touchdown...but this is not something for a student or low-time pilot to experiment with.

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Bob Gardner

[Chapster]

My God...its' full of stars. This is what you would state just as your aircraft plunges into the ground and you are thrust upward toward heaven to meet your Maker. If I were ever flying with you Bob and saw your hand touch the flap lever just before touchdown, I would kick your ass and send you home to ya mama. You might want to reread the Private Pilot training materials again and go up with an instructor like Scottd for refresher training.

I would take Bob's advice with half a grain of salt and a little pepper and throw it out the nearest aircraft window...NEVER DO WHAT BOB DOES is the moral f the story. Also, by all means DO experiement with no-flap landings, half flap landings, full flap landings, max gross weight landings, and just you in the plane landings.

Flay safe and remember DO NOT DO WHAT BOB DOES!!!

[summitgolfer]

Wilson, the bottom line is that no answer is correct for all airplanes or all situations. The answer for a Bonanza may not be the same as that for a Cub. I fly a 180. I can use my flaps to suit the situation both during take-off and landing. On floats, I start my take-off with 10 degrees, and pull 20 or 30 to pop the floats out of the water. I, like Mr. Gardner, retract flaps at touchdown in certain situations. These techniques aren't tricks, they suit a specific purpose. If you want the answer to your question in a specific plane, find an instructor, or an experienced pilot you respect, and ask them. I have an instructor that has over 30,000 hours total, and has flown his own 180 for over 40 years. He can do things in my plane that the book doesn't address.

[David Catta]

Remember that every airplane is made to fly with wings not flaps and that you can land with whatever configuration.

The flaps are used to lower the stall speed and/or to be used as speed brakes.

If you have done crosswind landings during your training you should remember the usage of flaps.

[ghostrider20]

This is a plane specific question.
I had a grumman AA-1 and the flaps did nothing at all if very little. Never used them. For the guy who thinks Bob is nuts, where have you been flying???
I fly in South Dakota most of the time and the winds are 25 knots on a daily basis and gusts to 50 knots are weekly. Lossing 20 knots of airspeed is very common. Low and Slow, NOT ME. Try and get your speed back in a 150 with full flaps!

If I am in a light cessna, I only add half flaps, gives better rudder control on heavy cross wind days. If you get slow and full flaps like some sugest, you will drift of the runway.
And if you leave them down, a gust of wind can float you right back up or off the runway. I retract the flaps as soon as the plane touches the ground if it is a light single.

[Ozemale]

I agree with Summitgolfer. My little quirk in small Cessnas is to lift the flaps as I am flaring for landing. We have fairly strong winds here and if I'm alone or have just one pax, then sometimes you can float down the runway. Lifting flap ensures that I put down where I want. Some of my strips on the property are bloody short. When I'm loaded, I revert to normal practice.