Instrument Solo

[1739T]

I had a thought this weekend which is pretty rare in it's self. I was wondering what the logic is behind allowing a VFR student to take off on a x-c with sometimes less than 20 hours but not allowing the 500 hour plus instrument student to file and fly IFR in VFR conditions.

I propose that a CFII sign-off should allow an instrument student to file and fly an IFR flight plan in VMC conditions. In the remarks column indicate IFR student training.

Why not?

It's a good question. I don't have a good answer. Here are my thoughts. Except for the act of "filing" IFR, you can almost simulate IFR flying. For example, as a private pilot you can ask for a practice approach anytime you want. During the slow times of the day, you usually get what you ask for. You can get flight following to your destination which will again simulate "most" of the ATC communication you'll receive. You can fly airways (not at IFR altitudes, of course) just like IFR. And you'll likely get traffic reports just like IFR.

I admit, sometimes ATC gets very busy and dumps you at their first chance. But that's not generally true. With all this in mind, you have the full benefit of the system without all of the overhead. Oh, don't forget your clearance into Class B when flying VFR.

[djschaut]

When you're on an instrument flight plan, you are under positive control from center. Although you file some flight plan, they can alter it anytime they want. Of course, you can cancel under FL180 anytime you want, too. But, ATC can, if they like, vector you to anywhere they want to suit their needs, which may be into actual IMC. Also, they could conceivably ask you to execute an instrument approach for which you haven't prepared or are unfamiliar with. In other words, VMC under an instrument flight plan doesn't matter. If you are flying on an instrument plan and are planning to keep your eyes on the instruements, what difference would it make if you were in IMC or VMC? The difference is that if you have a problem, you're rated. Likewise, the cross-country pilot can fly solo because he can see where he is going and is looking where he is going nearly all of the time.
Instrument flight is a whole 'nuther animal.


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DJSchaut

[1739T]

DJS,

The point I didn't make clear regarding flying a student training IFR plan only being allowed in VMC is simply if you encounter either an apporach that's problematic or impending IMC, cancel and go VFR. And as for simulating IFR, sure you can do it and even the approaches to uncontrolled fields but it's not legal to do the approach into a controlled field (doesn't mean that you don't find youself 7.2 miles out over the outer marker of the ILS, asking for a striaght in, now how did that happen?)

Garry

What do you mean in your statement "but it's not legal to do the approach into a controlled field?" Sure, you can't do an approach in actual instrument conditions, but you CAN legally do a practice approach (a full approach or vectors to final) into ANY field with an IAP as long as ATC has the time. It doesn't matter if you are rated or not, with an instructor or not or carrying passengers. Keep in mind that ATC doesn't have the time to teach you about approaches, so you better know what you are doing. They will give you the requirement to "maintain VFR at all times" while on the approach.

[1739T]

Scottd,

You answered the question of why it's not "legal" to do an approach at a controlled filed when you said "as long as ATC has the time" as an instrument student pilot you can not ask ATC for an instrument approach. Remember instrument students can not file or fly and instrument flight plan. This includes vectors to an approach. At least that's the way I understand the regs. That does seem a bit strange since VFR flight following can and does include vectors but mostly to get the heck out of the way of IFR traffic.

[1739T]

let me clarify one sentence above. I should have said instrument students can not file or fly instrument flight plans (including approaches) unless a CFII or instrumented safety pilot is in the right seat.

Garry,

It is true that a non-instrument rated pilot or a non-current instrument rated pilot cannot fly as PIC under IFR. It is also true that when you put on a view limiting device (foggles or hood) that you need a safety pilot (any pilot that is rated in the aircraft with category, class and type if required with a current medical) which doesn't have to be a CFII.

With all of this said and understood, you can as a non-instrument rated pilot (student or otherwise) fly into a towered airport (primary class B airport, for example) and request an instrument approach (with or without vectors to final) and fly the approach as published with no other person in the plane. You have to maintain VFR and you MUST look for other traffic. This is totally legal and ATC will be happy to help if they have the time.

Some might say that this is dangerous. And you don't have a hood on, so what's the point? Well, the point is that you are setting up the approach, tuning frequencies, identifying signals, flying the glideslope/localizer/VOR/course, getting clearances/vectors from ATC for the practice approach. Even though I am rated and current, I do this whenever I fly VFR and get the chance. If a safety pilot is in the other seat, I put on a hood then I can log it as simulated instrument time.

The point is that you can do this kind of thing totally VFR and get some good practice.

For further details, see AIM 4-3-21.