Need landing assistance

[shmoo]

So here's the story, im 25 and have roughly 23 hours of flight time logged. I have already solo'd a few times now, and am currently doing cross country. However, one thing i have yet to get a hold of, is landing. My landings always completely suck. In fact I was surprised my instructor even let me solo they are so bad. My biggest problem seems to be a very poor flare, and little to no directional control over the runway, i drift and sway about unable to get the plane to do what i want. When I flare, i either balloon too high, or dont flare enough at all and almost do a flat 3-point landing right on the ground. I try putting in lots of trim, medium trim, little to no trim, nothing seems to help. And i cant figure out for the life of me why i cant determine which direction the plane is facing in ground effect. When it feels like it's pointed to the right, it's really center. When it feels center, it's really to the left, and so on. I've had a few lessons like out of pattern solo and such cancelled on me because my instructor always flies with me for a few landings before I solo anything and has to scrub the lesson if I'm flat out sucking that day. The times i do land well are just total luck.

There have been a few instances of planned and executed landings that went well on my part by trying to land the plane between the centerline and edge of the runway. My instructor called it "avoid the ditches!". Pretend the centerline is a ditch, and the edge of the runway is a ditch, and that you have to land between the two. If the wheel goes into the ditch, it's game over. I found this to be really helpful because now instead of using the centerline as my reference, i was using the edge of the runway and the width of my landing lane to squeeze the plane into. I know i cant rely on this method because im cutting the runway in half and need to be able to land on the centerline to be safe.

Any help? Need more info? Im flying Cessna 172 SkyHawk's by the way. Both myself and my intructor(s) agree that my control in the air is flawless, and my approaches through the pattern and even to final are all very good. It's just the moment i have to flare, i lose it and everything falls apart and instead of controlling the airplane, i'm along for the ride.

P.S. Is anybody familiar with a little window mounted dashboard rectangle that some people have against the cockpit glass? Looks like a little picture frame in front of their vision right against the glass. Almost like a HUD, but without any information in it of course. Is this some kind of landing or other coordination aid? If not, is there any such thing as a landing aid? Some type of instrument or visual sticky you can put on the glass to kind of steer the airplane for and insure a successful landing?

[Bill Army IP]

Hey Schmoo,

First off, you are worrying a bit early in your career. I had almost the same problem when I began flying about 35 years ago - darn, make that close to 40. Anyway, I've now got 15,000 hours or so. Here's what I did about the directional control problem - which, by the way, probably comes from your seating position in the aircraft. Does the aircraft always seem to be angled off in one particular direction? It always seemed to be off to the left a bit and I had a darn hard time getting it straightened out on short final. What I finally did was have the instructor do a normal approach and landing while I sat there and watched, paying particular attention to the visual directional cues. I discovered that when he was lined up, the aircraft seemed a bit to the right for me. Right then and there I decided to do my landings with the aircraft aimed a few degrees to the right. From then on I had no problems with directional control. I just made it look like it did when my instructor flew it. I was actually playing a little mind game with myself and I knew it. But it worked and after a while I forgot about that game, as you will, and recognized when I was lined up.

Another recommendation. Make sure you are not focusing too close to the aircraft on short final. If you are looking down or within 10 or 15 feet of the nose, every little movement of the aircraft is magnified and it is easy to overcontrol at that time. On final, line the center line up - approach end to departure end - to run between your feet. This is in no wind conditions or after you have begun cross-controlling in a crosswind. As you reach short final make sure you are looking at least about 30 feet out in front of the aircraft - but don't stare at one point! Keep your eyes moving a bit so you can pick up your closure rate and descent angle.

Other than that, just relax and enjoy it. You are probably doing fine or your instructor wouldn't have soloed you at all. Don't expect every landing to be perfect. It doesn't work that way in the small aircraft we are flying. And you are still a pretty low time pilot. Give it time and it will all come together for you. Some day you'll wonder why you had so much difficulty landing. Stick with it.

Bill

[gosterho]

I only have about 250 hours, but know exactly what you are talking about. It just takes practice and time. The advice above is great. Look further down the runway is the best advice you can get. It really helps you judge direction and height better. I know you have heard it many times, but to do it is a different thing. It just seems like you need to look in close in to judge things, but it is the opposite. The further out you look, the easier it is (especially for directional control).
Enjoy, relax, and stay loose. It is just like playing a sport. The more relaxed and loose you are, the better you will land.
Have fun.
Please keep us informed on your progress. We look forward to hearing how it ends up and what helps you. What you post on here as you progress will help others with the same problem. And I guarantee that 90% of all student pilots have similar problems in the beginning.
Glen

[CJCFI]

The above is good advice. My two cents...Dont forget to use you feet. Also fly by the numbers. Too fast will balloon in flare, too slow will sink fast and may cause a bounce.

Have fun

[siegelaviation]

Originally Posted by shmoo

P.S. Is anybody familiar with a little window mounted dashboard rectangle that some people have against the cockpit glass? Looks like a little picture frame in front of their vision right against the glass. Almost like a HUD, but without any information in it of course. Is this some kind of landing or other coordination aid? If not, is there any such thing as a landing aid? Some type of instrument or visual sticky you can put on the glass to kind of steer the airplane for and insure a successful landing?

What you probably saw was the hot plate portion of the deice system of the aircraft. I have one on my Seneca II and it is a pain in the a$$ sometimes. However, I don't complain when it is preventing ice from obscuring my view.

As for lining up, don't try to put the center line down the middle of the plane. Keep it between your legs (while taxiing, takeoff, approach, and landing) and you will always be right on. This way, you don't have that canted view to the right.

Michael

[jrbauerjr]

I don't know how heavy you are, but my wife is having trouble flaring our 172. Her instructor thinks that between the two of them, the nose is too heavy. I've been instructed to put 105 lbs of weight plates in the baggage compertment, well secured, prior to her next lesson. I know that when we picked the plane up, the previous owner had an ammo can full of lead in the baggage area and he took it for his next plane.......

Check your weight and balance graph and see where you are compared to the full range. Maybe you need some weight.

[shmoo]

Well gentlemen, thank you all for your reponses, I think i finally nailed it! Especially after having a good 20 landings in a row almost near perfect transitioning from both soft field landings and just regular approach landings. What my main problem seems to have been, is not looking at the end of the runway, but rather that irresistible urge to look at the nose and ground immediately in front of me. Now my instructor always told me to do this (look at the end of the runway) and I thought I was, but apparently my fearful subconcious was taking over my upper level brain functions and forcing me to look down without even realising it. Once I made a consertive effort to snap my eyes off the hood and down the field I aced every single landing. I even caught myself a couple of times drifting back to the hood and gave my head a quick shake to look back up. I feel this is especially true also because all my horrible memories of landings consist of one visual element, the nose and the ground lol. I have no photographic memories depicting the tree line, horizon, and edge of the runway, the way things SHOULD be remembered had I been doing proper landings.

This one simple act allowed me to properly judge height, speed, cushion feeling in ground effect, etc etc etc. Now I almost ignore the look of the nose and just trust that if the centerline is between my legs, and that my shoulders are square, then I must be going straight. The feeling of a crooked plane has also started to lessen with all the successful landings now.

So I thank you guys again, especially Bill, and hopefully this will be of some use to the next troubled pilot should he stumble across it (I said the same to my instructor, to remind any future problem students that they must look at the end of the runway, and constantly remind them to do so, even if they think they already are).

[imapilot]

Hey, this is my problem too. I'm at ~16 hours with about 15 of my own landings and my instructor has been holding off my solo because I can't flare worth crap. So tommorrow, if the weather is nice i'll see if your theory will work for me.

Sounds like great advice though. thanks

[sync55]

I had a great instructor. He did the folloowing...
Paul. I want you to fly over the runway at 3 feet above ground just like you are going to land, but you can't let the wheels touch the ground. If you do you have to buy me lunch. I learned to do this and all my fears about landing went away. Now I know how much control I have over the airplane at low speeds. My landings are great. I have a video of one of my landings on my web site. Go to the video page and look for "landing in Marathon". www.goodsportaviation.com

Good luck