Learn to fly with young family?

[dcarey]

I would like earn my PPL in the next few years, and I was wondering if anyone has any advice for accomplishing this with a young, time-intensive family.

I have a toddler and a soon-to-be-newborn, and my wife's support is probably lukewarm at best. However, I have the flying bug real bad, and I don't think I can (or should) keep ignoring it for too much longer.

Any advice, suggestions, or thoughts would be very welcome.

Thanks in advance.

[AApilot]

Hello DCarey,
I would not recommend getting into aviation if you can't dedicate at least 5-6 hours per week for at least 6 months to it. If you start flying, studying, etc...then quit for a while...then try to start up again...not only will it be harder on you and your family...but your skills and knowledge level will be inadequate. If you're going to do it...do it...don't try to work it into your schedule...it's too dangerous. Good luck.

[djschaut]

>>AApilot--He posted in March--may not see the response.
>>Ditto. Also, with a young family--don't take them up until you have your instrument rating--you're asking for trouble.

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DJSchaut

[Jerry]

I find it amazing to read these replies. With all the efforts of AOPA and the EAA to encourage new pilots.

Being paranoid should disqualify anyone from being a pilot according to the FAA. Over 70% of private pilot do not have instrument ratings. There is no need to get one if you only intend to fly for fun, locally, in good weather, and always plan flights within 30 minutes of the nearest airport. If you can spend 3 hours on a Sunday morning, and 3 hours reading per week, you should be able to earn a private licence within a year. However if your spouse is not supportive you probably will then give up flying. Learning to fly is challenging and fun. Expect to spend about $4-5K and take approximately 77hours (AOPAs average pilot time for PPL), an FBO will tell you 50-60hrs which is optimistic unless you do a quicky course at a school.

From a safety point of view student pilot's are amongst the safest pilots according to 1997 statistics, and flying is twice as safe as driving (according to AOPA president Phil Boyer's address to congress following the JFK tradgedy) per mile travelled.

There is a better reason to leave your young family at home. Realistically babies and affordable aircraft do not mix. A Cessna 172 or Piper Archer is very noisy and requires a good headset or damage will result. Exposing unprotected infant ears to this would be irresponsible.

[djschaut]

>>Jerry
Points well taken. Given the parameters you have outlined about staying within 30 min. of the local airport and flying only in good weather, a student pilot shouldn't have a problem with his family.
There are a couple of reasons why I think an instrument rating is indispensable to any pilot. First, an instrument rating makes you a better VFR pilot. Suddenly, those instruments mean something and can get you out of a tight spot when the weather closes in. Also, 85% or so of aircraft accidents are attributable to pilot error--many times related to weather. It's very tempting to just skirt the clouds or fly through a brief veil of clouds to reach the clear sky on the other side (get there itis). Unfortunately, the air route sometimes requires flight through the ground during such instances. Without formal training the instruments offer no help. With the instrument rating a flight plan can be filed in-flight with center to get you through those low clouds and back to the airport. It can always be cancelled later. The instrument rating made me a better pilot overall.
By the time many pilots get their private, they're half way to the instrument hour requirement, making it all that much easier to get the ticket.
Flying by instruments requires discipline, concentration, study, heightened situational awareness, close attention to detail, skilled radio communication, and no deviation from headings and altitudes--all while passengers may be jabbering about what restaurant to go to when you land.
Flight by instruments is so far removed from flight by looking out the window that they can almost not be compared. It's a wonderful skill and requires complete trust in technology. It requires the pilot to rise above the simple operation of flight controls and become part of the air-traffic control system, 'renting' a section of airspace moving along an airway. Routine training in procedures also helps the pilot keep calm in bad situations. It may be dark, raining, cloudy and turbulent, but if you stick to procedure, mind your instruments and guages, and look for the runway at the right time, there shouldn't be a problem. There are many reasons to get the instrument ticket. I don't know of anyone who regrets it, and most hold the sentiments I do. It's just a very safe way to go.
People here in the Rockies fly their airplanes into the ground all the time trying to avoid the rapid deterioration in weather we have here. Happens every year. What does the VFR pilot do when there is no clear airspace between the clouds and the ground? Many don't turn around. I don't think that suggesting the instrument ticket is at all unreasonable.
Regardless, your points are well taken.


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DJSchaut

[Taildragger]

Hi,
Go ahead and do it. I have two kids and I am currently working on my private certificate in a Piper PA-18 Super Cub. It has taken me a year and a half and three different CFI's so far. As the sole source of income for my family money has always been a big issue, eat or fly.

My personal commitment to this goal runs very deep. I am willing to do whatever it takes to achieve and still take good care of my family. Sometimes it amazes me what is possible when we decide to bring a dream to life.

There have been several stops and starts,lots of downtime and sometimes even some tension between me and my wife. I learned that if you can't fly,study and then study some more books,tapes,magazines anything. Start taking your family to the FBO,get a cheeseburger,walk the flightline,encourage your airport kids.

At this moment I know this is worth it. Things are stating to happen,I am flying more,took my written and got a 95 on it. Lots of studying......... I know this stuff!

So yea,come to the edge,spread those wings,go for it,live a little!

regards,

Carl Stephenson
Chandler, Arizona

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[wxwatcher]

Just looked at this topic and it reminds me of me.

I learned to fly when I had a 4 year old at home. Wife was not against it, but she wasn't exactly for it either.

In that type of situation, you really need to have things together. Have the 4 to 5 grand available before you start your lessons, then put it down with the FBO and by "block time". Essentially, you are prepaying for all your training and flight time. Now that you don't have to worry about where the money is coming from for the next lesson, keep at it. I started in mid-January, soloed on February 7 (wife even made me a hookrug to commemorate the day), and had passed my private checkride on May 17 with 56 hours in the books. That included six weeks off from flying due to a back injury. Without that problem, I would have been done in less than three months. That works out to about five hours a week flight time. That's the only way to get it done. You stay fresh and learn and retain good habits. After that, I flew about two to three hours a month to stay current, about half the time with the family along for the ride.

Longest trip we took was about 600 miles one way. It sure was a kick overflying O'Hare field and watching the big jets below us (before the days of 12,000ft Class B Airspace, that is.)

Worst mistake I made was to stop flying when we moved to California. Cost per hour was more than double what I paid in the mid-west and we couldn't afford it anymore.

One of these days.........


Jerry

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Comments and opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.

[Tom McGehee]

Hello all,

I would like to give my thoughts as "the wife of the pilot with four kids". I too wasn't thrilled when my husband announced his desire to fly. I put him off for years but realized he wasn't getting any younger and he 'really' wanted to fly. However, we didn't just jump into it...we financially planned, estimating the costs of training and then rental and practice. We also considered the time involved away from home. Once all this was laid on the table and ironed-out he went for it. Instead of sitting at home during training, we took the whole family out to the airport; bringing sack lunches, involving me and the kids with everything going on. We now own a four- place plane, taking turns flying with him and enjoying a new aspect of our lives. For us there had to be involvement of the whole group or it wasn't going to work. Our youngest was four during all this. I don't know if I could have handled the time and expense involved when our kids were in the baby stage. It takes a lot of energy and involvement of time when babies comes into the picture...and it takes energy and involvement with flying as well. Make sure you can juggle both at the same time or what could be some of the greatest memories for your kids' and you and wife's lives, could turn out to be sour grapes. It could be that you could wait just a few more years and have the best time of your life, and your kids too because they will be old enough to be a part of the whole process. Just my thoughts...good luck.

Debbie McGehee

[djschaut]

Debbie,
Thank you for your thoughts. I learned to fly when my kids were babies. As toddlers, I strapped them in their car seats and let 'er rip. What toddlers do as soon as you fire up the engine and they're snug, warm, and feel the vibration is--you guessed it--sleep. One time, on a return trip from Seattle to Denver, I stopped in Kremmling, Colorado to refuel, check weather, and file an instrument plan for the remaining 20 minutes of the trip. I landed, refueled, and took off and neither of the kids woke up at all. One was four, the other two. I have some excellent photos of them in a Baron. Also, dad and daughter used to take trips together--to Arizona and Washington. I have photos of dad in the pilot's seat and daughter Erin in her car seat as co-pilot. Heck, we strapped them into a Mooney and flew to Upper Michigan for Christmas one year--landing on an airstrip covered with ice. Thirty below outside on the ramp. They don't even remember those trips. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

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DJSchaut

[Aerobuyck]

Flying with a family can be difficult. I have two fairly young children, 7 and 3 and know that the desire to fly is a wonderful addiction.

I started to fly after being in a car accident. I realized that I always wanted to do it, I wasn't getting any younger and that I might not be here tomorrow. I hope to get my children envolved in something I love and spend some great family time as well. My husband has always loved aviation as well, but realized his wife would probably get her license first. While this may sound great to you, its still hard to justify spending the money when the extra cash isn't around. My husband has realized that this is something that I really love and we have found a great way to make it work.

The suggestions of time frame that others have given helps you to make a more informed decision about how much time is required. Having the support of you family helps and will be a key in your success. It's certainly possible to be a "safe pilot" whether you have a VFR or IFR rating. Everyone has personal minimums about their flying conditions and situations. The family doesn't have to all fly from east to west coast with you piloting.

Good luck,

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"To want in one's head to do a thing, for its own sake; to enjoy doing it; to concentrate all of one's energies upon it-that is not only the surest guarantee of its success. It is also being true to oneself." Amelia Earhart

[JOHN WARREN]

What I would suggest to you is that you start studying now for your written, I took me six months of studying with my busy schedual with a wife and 4 kids to know enough to pass the written test. Then you have up to two years to take the practical.Now I know some one that has been studying for his written and flying for the past few years just taking his time obviously and definetly not in a hurry. It worked for him.
Seriously, I would not hesitate to start studying now everything you can and when you are ready to dive into it you will be that much ahead and it will surely cure the deferred desire you have.

[jaiencon]

I have had a PPL for about four years. I was married two and a half years ago and now have a 14 month old son. Before my wife and I were married we made some wonderful trips that really hooked her on flying (Williamsburg Va. sightseeing, Canada fishing, Outer Banks camping Martha's Vinyard and Cape Cod sightseeing to name a few). After we were married and when she was 7 1/2 months pregnant with our son we flew to Martha's Vinyard for the day in a Cessna 172 and had a wonderful time. The baby also flies with us. This past spring when he was only 6 months old we took him to Bar Harbor Me. for a long weekend and this fall he went with us to Lake Lanier Ga.. Now, at fourteen months, he is starting to talk, and one of his first words was something that resembled airplane as he saw one in the sky (or was that my imagination).
As others have mentioned, I would make sure to involve the family in your flying from the start. Make it something that brings you together with them rather than isolating you from them. Other tips on traveling with todlers; provide them with good ear protection (we use a child headset for out todler),since a todler's ability to equalize pressure is limited make climbs and decents very gradually and make sure the child uses a pacifier during altitude changes. Also when traveling with the family plan frequent stops.
Flying has been a wonderful family experience for us and I would highly recommend it to others. Remember, when flying for fun, don't be in a hurry!!

[PropWash]

It's a tough balance...children and airplanes are not low cost items. And, as long as your wife has negative feelings about it, your flying career is not secure. Too many times people who don't fly think it's a cash-intensive and non-practical past time (yet many of those same people will spend money and time making ovals on a lake in a motorboat, running along for hours and getting nowhere).
You may want to consider two things: setting a budget that will allow six hours flight time a month and showing your wife that, although flying IS cash intensive, it is practical. My wife wondered that my flying was akin to a joyride in the sky...burning time and money without getting anywhere. So, I drove her to the airport and asked her to time our drive (just over 1/2 hour). As we started out take off roll, I asked her to check the time. I flew a sight-seeing, indirect flight to our house, and as we flew over, asked her to check the time (about 15 minutes). The efficiency of flying impressed her (even in a C-150!). The prospect of making a four four flight to visit her folks verses a 10 hour drive impresses her and she is more willing to work with me to find ways to keep flying an option.

Good luck.


[This message has been edited by PropWash (edited 06-07-2000).]

As the kids TV show "The Magic School Bus" saying goes..."Learn, take chances, make mistakes." Well hopefully no serious mistakes. It's a great challenge to learn to fly. I'm not a youngster, but I'm glad I did not wait until I was old and gray. Your kids will see Dad (or Mom) with a desire to learn and a skill very few people have. This will hopefully spark their interest to learn as well.

Flying is one of the few things in life that brings so many disciplines to the table such as math, science, communication, emotion, health, geography, law, etc.

As far as the "instrument rating" goes, it is a personal decision on your part to carry any passengers. As mentioned earlier, an IFR ticket will make you a better pilot. I learn something every time I fly. But I believe it is safer than strapping your kids in the family van.

[This message has been edited by scottd (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Alberto J. Elizondo]

dcarey,

I also have the flying bug real bad (I would say obsession about flying). I have 10, 7 and 5 year old kids. I am now 35 but I took some flying lessons when I had 15, the flying school went bankrupt and did´nt get my ticket at that time.

As it´s very comoon I guess, my wife does´nt exactly likes the possibility of myself getting killed (specially with three kids to raise and educate), But she told me that she would agree if I really, really wanted to fly. My older kid is not very enthusiatic about it either. He says that the rewards does not compensate for the potential risks.

They throw me the ball and so I had to make a desition. I decided not to fly, at least until they get a little bit older. My older kid advice was crytical on this desition, even more so than my wifes.

Hope this help you figure out what to do.